Bulletin Board # 50

I know, I go for weeks without posting anything and suddenly you get several things....at least this one isn't all jokes; only the one about the North Carolina requirement fot TSCM licensing (but it's a sick joke and I can't laugh).



This came up on the SpyKing Forum and was very good reading. This addresses only that portion pertaining to TSCM and TEMPEST. The rest is available by scroling up or down.

Enjoy.



http://jya.com/jcs.htm#c5



TSCM Licensing---State



Thanks to the providers of information:
Washington State
From: ron carper

- The compete text may be viewed at:
http://www.pnai.com/carper

State of Washington PI Law states in part:

RCW 18.165.010 Definitions.

(11) "Private investigator" means a person who is licensed under this chapter and is employed by a private investigator agency for the purpose of investigation, escort or body guard services, or property loss prevention activities.
(12) "Private investigator agency" means a person or entity licensed under this chapter and engaged in the business of detecting, discovering, or revealing one or more of the following:
  1. Crime, criminals, or related information;
  2. The identity, habits, conduct, business, occupation, honesty, integrity, credibility, knowledge, trustworthiness, efficiency, loyalty, activity, movement, whereabouts, affiliations, associations, transactions, acts, reputation, or character of any person or thing;
  3. The location, disposition, or recovery of lost or stolen property;
  4. The cause or responsibility for fires, libels, losses, accidents, or damage or injury to persons or to property;
  5. Evidence to be used before a court, board, officer, or investigative committee;
  6. Detecting the presence of electronic eavesdropping devices; or
  7. The truth or falsity of a statement or representation.
(13) "Qualifying agent" means an officer or manager of a corporation who meets the requirements set forth in this chapter for obtaining a private investigator agency license.
(14) "Sworn peace officer" means a person who is an employee of the federal government, the state, or a political subdivision, agency, or department branch of a municipality or other unit of local government, and has law enforcement powers. [1995 c 277 * 17; 1991 c 328 * 1.]
RCW 18.165.020 Exemptions. The requirements of this chapter do not apply to:
  1. A person who is employed exclusively or regularly by one employer and performs investigations solely in connection with the affairs of that employer, if the employer is not a private investigator agency;
  2. An officer or employee of the United States or of this state or a political subdivision thereof, while engaged in the performance of the officer's official duties;
  3. A person engaged exclusively in the business of obtaining and furnishing information about the financial rating of persons;
  4. An attorney at law while performing the attorney's duties as an attorney;
  5. A licensed collection agency or its employee, while acting within the scope of that person's employment and making an investigation incidental to the business of the agency;
  6. Insurers, agents, and insurance brokers licensed by the state, while performing duties in connection with insurance transacted by them;
  7. A bank subject to the jurisdiction of the *Washington state banking commission or the comptroller of currency of the United States, or a savings and loan association subject to the jurisdiction of this state or the federal home loan bank board;
  8. A licensed insurance adjuster performing the adjuster's duties within the scope of the adjuster's license;
  9. A secured creditor engaged in the repossession of the creditor's collateral, or a lessor engaged in the repossession of leased property in which it claims an interest;
  10. A person who is a forensic scientist, accident reconstructionist, or other person who performs similar functions and does not hold himself or herself out to be an investigator in
  11. any other capacity; or
  12. A person solely engaged in the business of securing information about persons or property from public records. [1995 c 277 * 18; 1991 c 328 * 2.]


From: Gregory Caldwell
Subject: Re: TSCM State Certification-Colorado

Tim:

In Colorado, there is no licensing or certification process (for PIs or TSCMs). The last law on the books was challenged and declared unconstitutional in 1977 for not allowing prior investigators (of any kind) to grandfather in. Therefore, if you can spell it, you are one. (Frightening!)

I would also assume that Texas would require a license for a TSCM op as they have one of the broadest statutes ever on what constitutes "investigations".

I have an associate in MA who is a licensed PI and performs TSCM work. (You may know him, like us, he is also an Intelnet member.) He states there is no separate licensing or certs. I will check with him on the other aspects of training requirements for licensing, etc. and let you know.

Greg



From: "Steve Uhrig"
Subject: Re: TSCM State Certification MARYLAND

Maryland is the same as Arizona. No specific licensing for TSCM, but you cannot do any follow on work that would toe over the line into doing investigations.

Because this is often the case, we generally want prospective TSCM clients to go through a licensed PI agency to engage our services. Almost always the PI can sell them some allied investigative work, which makes them happy and ultimately provides the best service to the client. And protects me if I do cross the line in trying to do right by the client.

Some PIs in Maryland have their own agenda and actually requested the state to require licensing for TSCM, under the PI aegis. I suspect they are trying to cut competition from several more or less legitimate non-PI TSCM providers, but nothing is expected to come of it. There also was some talk of licensing TSCM under alarm technicians, but that so far has gone nowhere either, and would be a mistake in my opinion. There is no relation between alarm work and TSCM work.

Personally I would not have a problem with voluntary membership in a private organization that would recognize *competent* providers, but I do not like the idea of any government license. A largish number of PIs in MD are legitimately licensed with the attendant credibility, but are incompetent investigators. I can see the same thing happening were TSCM licensing to become a reality.

Steve Uhrig, SWS Security, Maryland (USA)
website http://www.swssec.com
tel +1+410-879-4035, fax +1+410-836-1190



New York
From: SpyKing
Subject: Re: TSCM license

New York is NO license state. PI license is not necessary.
General Info

From: "James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng"
Subject: Re: TSCM State Certification

Out of curiousity (and as a reference for everyone else) would the membership please check and provide input as to the certification and/orlicensing of individuals who perform TSCM work within their state.

I know for a fact that you must be licensed as a private investigator in Nevada. I know because I was bit in the rear end by a former member of AFOSI for responding to inquiries of various casions and other businesses. Legally, I guess I WAS wrong.

In North Carolina, you must be trained by organizations "certified" by the state. I was invited to be an instructor by one of those organizations, but cannot be certified by the State of North Carolina until I actually attended the training. I don't think being trained at the Interagency Training Center, Fort Hollabird or DOE qualifies. At least, my inquiries leads me to that conclusion.

In Arizona, it is a grey area---as long as you don't make any attempts to identify who put the device in (investigative steps) there are no restrictions. You are providing a service, not acting as an investigator.

Also, if you have any information on reciprocity between states, that would be useful.

I'll be glad to compile the info, pass it back to you and post it on my web site for reference purposes.

Thanks

Tim



Tim,
The ONLY state to require licensing is still only North Carolina, and in NC only a one week TSCM course is required.

To get the "straight scoop" always write a letter to the Attorney General's Office of several states and ask the specific question regarding TSCM (as a technical service). All will tell you (except NC) that it is perfectly legal, so long as the service is technical and not investigative.

Thoughout the U.S. TSCM falls into a "grey area", so long as the service remains technical there is no problem (except in NC). However, several states have recently written laws which expand the "gray area". I've not yet been able to get a copy of the statutes in NV, HI, CA, and TX but the AG's have all assured me that TSCM is still considered (as of May 1997) a technical service.

However, if the TSCM specialist finds a device, and them attempts to identify the person who planted it the line is crossed into "Investigations" (an area best left to law enforcement).

Of course it's up to a judge and/or jury to decide if you have crossed the line between a "technical service" and an "investigative service". What you do, and how you do it should be discussed with an attorney.



Sadly, anybody can be issued the license in NC provided that they've attended a one week class (taught at any one of six schools). The only thing they do is run your name/SSN to check for convictions, wants, and warrants. Then run a credit check to verify that you are "morally qualified" to do TSCM. They then contact the TSCM schools which you claim to have attened and poof you get the card.

The licensing board does not inquire as to technical credentials other than that (they really don't care that you may have a PhD EE, or that you worked at Langley doing TSCM for 10 years).

Only 24-25 TSCM'ers actually are licensed in NC (I have the list), and all of them are physically located in NC (or just over the border of a nearby state). Only about 15 of these are "long term" holders, with the balance not renewing after two years. (Note: many TSCM folks apply to NC just to get the sexy little ID card, with no intent of performing TSCM services in NC or maintaining the license).



In the event that a corporate sweep team finds a device, most will "freeze", verify the find, and then immediately contact a law enforcement agency (usually federal) for the investigation.

Of course the nice men from Quantico are always fun to work with, they tend to go bug-eyed, and slack jawed when you drop an 8*10 sheet of X-ray film on them, and then show them how you found the device concealed in a lamp.

I've also seen dozens of cases where major law enforcment agencies (including federal) called in a civilian TSCM specialist to perform a TSCM service. The rationalization was that the technical service was too specialized, and that they were trained to install devices not find them.



I spoke to an AG (an ex-DCI TSCM'er) over dinner a while back, he explained it like this:

An accountant's job is to maintain the financial records for a company.

In the course of his work if an anomaly in the records are found he will verify the correctness of his work and the records.

Once he has verified that the records are correct and that he honestly belives that someone may have defrauded the company the accountant will collect his records and notify law enforcment of a "possible crime".

The accountant does not "dust for prints", give polygraphs, interview witnesses, or interogate suspects. These are all tasks which are conducted by criminal investigators.

A locksmith helps to prevent buglary and other crimes by providing services and equipment which provides a secure enviroment for a building, auto, etc...

The locksmith does not INVESTIGATE buglaries, thefts, break-ins, and other crimes. However, he may be brought in to consult regarding his "specific area of technical expertise". (ie: analysis of drill points)

The locksmith does not "dust for prints", give polygraphs, interview witnesses, or interogate suspects. These are all tasks which are conducted by criminal investigatrors.

The TSCM specialists job is to provide technical services and equipment to preserve confidentiality and to maintain a certain level of secrecy.

While TSCM specialists may be consulted by law enforcement due to their "specific area of technical expertise", this does not give them the power to investigate criminal matters.

In fact, when a TSCM specialist discovers an illegal eavsdropping device, he should behave just as if he has just discovered a dead body. The scene should be secured, facts documented, and APPROPIATE law enforcement personnel notified.




A few things to consider:

  1. TSCM is not a skill normally taught to criminal investigators, and no legitimate academic institution offers TSCM as a normal course of study. Several schools will occasionally offer a TSCM seminar, but only as a curiousity, or as a special course, but never as a normal course of study.
  2. 99.9% of the equipment used to perform a legitmate TSCM service is not specific to the forensics or law enforcement industry. Instead the equipment is specific to the aviation and electronics industry.
  3. Within the federal government, TSCM is controlled by the Director of Central Intelligence, and other elements of the intelligence community (see EO 12333, DCI 1/22, DODI 5240.5).
  4. Within the federal government, TSCM is generally not controlled by those involved in law enforcement (ie: DOJ).
  5. The DOD provides TSCM services to Congress, however; DOJ, nor any other federal LE agency.
  6. Legitimate TSCM equipment is considered a military munition, and as such is controlled commodity, law enforcement investigative and forensics equipment is not.
  7. According to Herbert O. Yardley; "The detection, exploitation, and nullifcations of eavesdropping devices and activities are technical services provided by our staff to Military Intelligence." (Mr. Yardley was the father of the NSA, and had a very hostile attitude toward any attempt to equate his work to that of any law enforcement or police activity).
  8. The first TSCM teams (working for Yardley back in 1915-1919) were all scientists, most with college degrees in electronics, chemistry, or engineering. Not a single criminal investigator in any subsection of MI-8.
  9. Attending a one week driving course does not make one a race car driver. Nor does attending a one or two week TSCM course make one a TSCM specialist.
  10. Buying a violin does not make one a musician.
  11. TSCM services are only performed by highly trained technical people (with thousands of hours of training).
  12. These TSCM specialists utilizes hundreds of thousands of dollars of instruments to identify technical vulnerabilities, threats, and weakness.
  13. Also, in Jan.1997, NIA decided to drop their TSCM program as their only students were law enforcement personnel, who had very limited interested in TSCM (cops do not normally do TSCM).
- James M. Atkinson



After providing the above info, Jim and I had a few e-mails and he contacted the Nevada Attorney General's office where he found the following:



From: "James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng"
Subject: Re: TSCM State Certification

Tim,

I contacted the Attorney Generals in Neveada and had the issue clarified formally.



Nevada Revised Statutes (as of 12/03/97)

CHAPTER 648
PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS, PRIVATE PATROLMEN,
POLYGRAPHIC EXAMINERS, PROCESS SERVERS,
REPOSSESSORS AND DOG HANDLERS

NRS 648.012 was ammended in 1985 to include TSCM services
(Added to NRS by 1985-1328).

NRS 648.012 "Private investigator" defined. "Private investigator" means any person who for any consideration engages in business or accepts employment to furnish, or agrees to make or makes any investigation for the purpose of obtaining, information with reference to:
  1. The identity, habits, conduct, business, occupation, honesty, integrity, credibility, knowledge, trustworthiness, efficiency, loyalty, activity, movement, whereabouts, affiliations, associations, transactions, acts, reputation or character of any person;
  2. The location, disposition or recovery of lost or stolen property;
  3. The cause or responsibility for fires, libels, losses, accidents or damage or injury to persons or to property;
  4. Securing evidence to be used before any court, board, officer or investigating committee; or
  5. The prevention, detection and removal of surreptitiously installed devices for eavesdropping or observation.




(Added to NRS by 1967, 1364)

ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OPINIONS.

NRS 648.0155 "Security consultant" defined. "Security consultant" means a person licensed as a private patrolman or private investigator who engages in the business of furnishing advice on the proper methods and equipment for providing security and protection for persons and property.



There are a lot more states out there for which we don't have information. Your input would be greatly appreciated.

Also desired is information on reciprocity between states, or if a license is required of an individual who is performing the service on a random (you call, we haul) basis.

Tim