Bulletin Board #36

Well, folks, here's something else for you to digest.




From: Manatau
Subject: Re: TSCM questions on bug types

Augie;
In over twenty years i have found over 2000 listening devices ranging form hard wired tape recorders to RF tansmitters.

By far the most used devices are cheap transmitters put in by amatures with a range of less than 50 yards. most of these were modified in an attempt to get more range. The most commod attempt at modification was to try to increase the voltage, this is like trying to push a marble thru a straw, it can be done but sooner or later something has to give. most of this wan either Radio Shack or Ramsey equipment.

The professional way to increase output is to attach a linear amp to the antenna out and tweek the antenna. Most people do not know the antenna has a major impact on the transmission range as well as clearity.

I recently saw the "Mother" of all transmitters. I suspect it is Westinghouse or Harris manufactured.

It was a "body type" transmitter @ 413. MHZ, factory made with etched antenna, and shielded. It operated on 3 volt hearing aid batteries. This baby will fit in a pen and tested loud and clear at over 300 meters. The last time I saw anything even close to this was in Langly Va.

The band was so narrow on this that it was missed by a Avcom Spectrum Analyzer. OSCOR found it the first time three rooms away from its location. (I'm still hoping someone will leave me an OSCOR in their will.)

You didn't ask but I will volunteer that most "Tagmen" will attempt to locate their LP, receiver, close to the transmitter while keeping it accessable. I have found quite a few that transmit to a receiver antenna located about 20 to 30 feet from the transmitter then the antenna coax is run to a recorder some place in the building. "Uncle Sugar" usually has their LP on the street or next door to the transmitter. They try to "control" the transmitter/recorder location.

There are exceptions, Gotti tag and operation Tic Talk (Miami)tag, both these were tagged by contract help under government control.

Advice to TSCM operatives. ID the transmitter before you tell your client of its existance or location. The government gets a mite touchy if you mess with their tags!!!

I can asssure you that all good TSCM ops will destroy any transmitter they find. its the right thing to do.

K.C.
sds@sierranv.net




I responded:
Au contraire, monsieur. The job of the TSCMer is to find the problem. It is the responsibility of the client to decide what to do with it. There are to many operatives out there that keep "finding" a transmitter or microphone or recording device over and over, telling the client they will do an evaluation on it and dispose of for them. If they don't want it, I will take it, but only after they have stated that is what they want.

Personally, I will never destroy a device (except by accident when doing an evaluation--and that hasn't happened yet).

Out of curiousity (and it will not be published), I'd like response from those of you involved in TSCM work indicating how long you've been in the business and how many transmitters, etc., you've found (and where). E-mail me at dbugman@dbugman.com.

If you prefer, I would bet that the readership would like to know as well, but that is for you to decide.

I have reservations about a couple of other items, but I'd best keep quiet.
Tim

I'd like input and/or comments from the reader. Responses will be posted anonymously, if requested.

From: trace@onramp.net
Subject: Wireless Transmitters

Hi Tim,
Good to see the board back up and running. I've actually had some good results with the Radio Shack 170MHz wireless mics. If you take them out of the cigarette pack sized case you have two pc boards that can be placed inside target objects, and if you boost B+ to around 12volts you actually get a low cost transmitter with a useful range for may hotel type applications.

Trace Carpenter Investigations
2926 Maple Ave., Ste. 200 -------- Ignorance of the law is no excuse;
Dallas, Texas 75201 -------- Ignorance of the law makers apparently is..
214.828.4520
214.740-0112 Facsimile




From: Kelleypi@aol.com
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 09:06:58 -0500 (EST)
To: dbugman@dbugman.com
Subject: Re:

Tim....Good note on the transmitters. Locks? I haven't picked one in a while and picking is like playing basketball......If you want to be good, you have to practice all the time. Raking the simple ones is another story. However, if you have ever impressioned a lock and found that you are good at it, it doesn't take practice. If you have the nack, its always there. I have impressioned over 400 locks in my career and it is the most sure way, eliminates the headaches of mushroom and spool pins, and leaves you with a key for the next entry. However, let it be known that I do not make illegal entries.
I have little use for the transmitters and use recorders with remote mikes and adjustable record levels for consentual audio. Most of my work is criminal defense work such as murders, aggravated assualt or battery, drugs, and such. I do 80% of my work for criminal defense attorneys and nearly all the rest is for governments (grand juries, Death Penalty Defense Unit, and special investigations for local prosecuters). It keeps it interesting. My success in helping the defense folks has brought the prosecution into the game. They want me to work for them on big cases if they can hire me before the defense attorneys can. There is work for our kinds of folks in the small town/rural area environment. Since there are few qualified investigators in these areas there is little if any competition. And you don't even have to market yourself to any extent. Just get a few jobs from one attorney, do a good job, and he/she will pass the word to many other attorneys. All of my new work is by word of mouth. And I have jobs going now as far away as 180 miles. Attorneys are like gypsies when it comes to keeping in touch and passing on info. Just wanted to bring you up to date. Keep in touch and thanks for your continuing info.
Jack




X-Sender: spyking@admin.con2.com
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 15:10:03 -0500
To: Tim Johnson From: SpyKing
Subject: Re: Transmitters
Mime-Version: 1.0

At 12:37 PM 11/14/1997 -0700, you wrote:
Ken,
I'd have to go back and pull the Spyking post out of the trash, but o other major area of concern was the fact you stated you have found over 2000 devices over the past twenty years; that's more than 100 a year or would average out to one every job you went out on (if you work like most other people). Maybe I'm wrong, but 100 to 125 jobs a years is about what the average TSCMer does.

I've asked permission of Spyking to let me post your post onto my site for additional comments, but haven't received permission back yet.

Also, when I find something, it belongs to the client until they tell me otherwise. If they decide to keep it, they receipt for it and a notation is made in the report to the effect they retained possession of the device. I have done the job I was hired to do and can't dictate to them what they should do. On the other hand, I do styrongly recommend that anything found be turned over to the police and a report made.

More later; My grandson just woke up and is hungry.

Tim




  • Tim Johnson dbugman@dbugman.com
  • Technical Security Consultants Inc
  • PO Box 1534 Chandler, AZ 85244-1534
  • (602)786-0909
  • http://www.dbugman.com/
What you say in private is your business.
Keeping it private is ours. Copyright.1987-TSCI



Respionse from Spyking, etc.
This is the only message I received in regards to this post. You can reprint this if you like. I would also be interested in the results. The number seems awfully high to me also... Tomorrows edition of SLF will contain my comments on found devices and what we do here in the NYC metro area. See below for the early edition ;-)

From: "Probe Inc - Spy Tech Agency"
Subject: Re: TSCM questions on bug types

From: Manatau
Subject: Re: TSCM questions on bug types

K.C. wrote to Augie:
In over twenty years I have found over 2000 listening devices ranging form hard wired tape recorders to RF transmitters. etc., etc.


K. C. wrote:
I can assure you that all good TSCM ops will destroy any transmitter they find. its the right thing to do.

Tim wrote:
Au contraire, monsieur. The job of the TSCMer is to find the problem. It is the responsibility of the client to decide what to do with it. There are to many operatives out there that keep "finding" a transmitter or microphone or recording device over and over, telling the client they will do an evaluation on it and dispose of for them. If they don't want it, I will take it, but only after they have stated that is what they want.




Jei wrote:
K.C., I'll have to stand in Tim's corner with this one. As he stated our function is to locate and evaluate and recommend. The client, be it an individual, corporate or government retains the right to proceed with the information and analysis we give them, in whatever manner they see fit. You certainly can't expect the client to pay a premium for us to go in "soft" so the "listeners" don't detect our presence, only to destroy or disable the devices. In addition to that, by removing the devices you eliminate any options for the client to run a dis-information campaign or a sting to nail the perpetrators.

Another consideration to keep in mind is the act of participating in the destruction of evidence used to commit a felony. Even a client release won't protect you on that one if the client's attorney advises them to turn on you later.

As for the "TSCM'rs" who keep "finding" devices, they are a blemish on our profession but fortunately disappear after a short time, falling to attrition by poor performance and "discount" rates that can't support the equipment or ongoing education they require for a specialized trade reserved for those with skill and knowledge.

sta@spytechagency.com
http://www.spytechagency.com

8519-8521 West Sunset Blvd.

West Hollywood, CA 90069 USA
t: 310-657-6333
f: 310-657-8714
+++Moderator's Note+++
I have to jump in on this one... Here in NY State it is against the law to divulge a court ordered listening device. It is ALSO against the law NOT to notify the authorities if an illegal one is found...

Having been on both sides (former LEO tech)and for the last 20 years involved in TSCM, I can tell you that MOST firms in the NYC metropolitan area do NOT notify authorities when a device is found... It has been my practice to notify the client when a device is physically found and tell them to call their attorney for guidance... I also inform them of the law (in NYS) and tell them I must by law report the device... Here's where the fun starts...

The NYPD has approximately 30,000 PO's. Of that number only about a dozen are directly involved in installing surveillance technology pursuant to a court order... I, at one time, was one of those dozen...

The average cop on the beat would not know a "bug" if it bit him or her on the rear end... This is normal... and I'm sure it is the same worldwide... When making the notification of the crime (eavesdropping device) all hell breaks loose... The sector car that shows up to take the initial report must notify the sgt. on patrol. Who in turn notifies the Lt at the stationhouse desk... Who in turn notifies the Duty Captain... Who will normally visit the site and make a determination as to what unit will be called to remove the device... normally it is a tech detective from the TARU or OCCB unit...

Then the TSCM tech can expect a few hours of explaining why he was called in, who is the client, what does he know about the client, what equipment he used to find the device, how he found the device, etc. Who, what, where, when, how and why stuff...

Then the investigating detective will "call around", depending on the type of device found, to other agencies (LE or Gov)to see if it's their device...

NYPD NORMALLY keeps jurusdiction in these cases... It has been my experience in the past that the FBI normally declines to get involved in these cases and let's the locals handle the investigation...

I have personally handled two cases where the FBI DID get involved because of the victim... One was the director of a NY state agency (we found a bug in his office, it later turned out to be court ordered)and the other was one of the largest brokerage houses on Wall Street (14 listening devices in the arbitrage area... the find NEVER hit the papers).

I have in the past worked with local LE in assisting the client to feed mis-information to the "found" device in the hope it will provide a clue as to the perp. We have also setup video surveillance of some devices such as line activated tape recorders in basements of apartment or office buildings and caught perps when they came back to change the tapes...

Once and a while we'll get the go ahead to disable a device after setting up a video surveillance in the hope the perp will return like those dopes did in Watergate... Every once and a while you get lucky...

Most times the case detective will have the device removed and vouchered... end of case... rarely if ever is telephone security notified...

SpyKing

P.S. While doing a TSCM search on Wall Street one day, myself and an associate tuned into a clear audio signal... we heard office chatter (financial stuff)and thought at first we had a hit... after closer examination we discovered the listening device two floors below in the offices of another firm...

If you believe the US Attorney's office statistics that the busted "Spy Shops" sold over 4,400 illegal listening devices you will realize that the problem is VERY real and those devices are out there right now listening to someone...


This is a good thread we've got going... I hope it continues...
fj


The Codex Surveillance & Privacy News - http://www.thecodex.com
Moderator of "The Surveillance List"... http://www.thecodex.com/list.html
The Nets FIRST & ONLY list dedicated to Surveillance Technology...
"We don't spy on you... but we DO keep an eye on those that do..."

  • Tim Johnson dbugman@dbugman.com
  • Technical Security Consultants Inc
  • PO Box 1534 Chandler, AZ 85244-1534
  • (602)786-0909
  • http://www.dbugman.com
What you say in private is your business.
Keeping it private is ours. Copyright.1987-TSCI